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Yesterday at 1:08:43 PM(UTC)
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Here you can discuss the following videos. Click link below to open video player in pop-up window. POC week 4 - 28th July, 1/4POC week 4 - July 28th, 2/4POC week 4, July 28th, 3/4POC week 4, July 28th, 4/4This is part 1 of the fantastic POC week 4 that was played on the 28th July.
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Good sport by Heddeball but stealing blinds is okey.. Just a gentleman/dumbass:) to wait..
The hand you wanted me to reply to was lie this: i got k6 or something on bb 50, sb bet to 125.. i go allin with 1,2k and he called.. i said good call with a bit of split opinion about it since it was my first reraise after about 25 -30 hands.. He was right obv, but i dont know if its worth the risk.. give me your oppinion..
On another topic, this site is like a fucking cancer for me.. always thinking after the game, damn i suck so hard at this game, for then to think through my hands and dont really dislike my play.. K3 vs A5 on A45 board.. I put my stack in because i think well he cant flop an ace evrytime and still if he has he will find a call hard to make and if he does it i still have 4*2 outs of getteing a straight.. and he shows top two pairs, wee.. Enough with the complaing just hate to always look like a fucking donk idiot and tool..
Nice entertainment as always Bear! :)
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You asked me to watch these vids, and I have obliged. I tell you what, looking back at it, KNOWING WHAT I HAD, I played a couple of spots wrong, but in my defence, I was tired as anything, I mean I missed the first game because I was trying to get a couple of hours sleep.
But I tell you what. You have to remember, you cannot see what we are holding. I quote;
'Thats what connectorz will do, he will just shove at you, and thats a mistake by Slevin, Connectorz will just avoid skill and shove it, because if he thinks you have a 6, a 9 or even a 5 he will put you to a decision'
Now. I know you were bitter with me at the time of this commentary but this is mental lol. Putting people to a tough decision for starters is obv bad... I mean, you want to make their life easy. I had 98 in that hand. 98 bear. I flopped top pair and a gutshot, a big hand Heads Up, when he raises me on that flop, is range is fairly wide, but mostly hands that I am beating, but not by much unless he is bluffing. The board is intensely draw heavy, and after he has raised, sure, he folds his pairs that I am beating, but any diamond kills the action, and I can get bluffed off my hand on rivers when overcards/diamonds come. In the event he has a draw, I obv want to get it all in on the flop. And for god sake, putting people to tough decisions is what HU poker is all about.
You talk about Slevin outplaying me. I have no idea what you are talking about. This is a turbo HU, and I ground him down by taking advantage of his raise folding. How is that not good play. I reshoved on him repeatedly, and I ground him down to a stage where I could get him all in (with the best hand I add) and should have finished it.
Also all the chat about him getting in my head with his comments. L-O-L. How can you say stuff like that its just your imagination roaming wild, sure it makes for more animated commentary but it also make very little sense.
I did not play my A game today, fair enough, but all I can say is that you really have to remember that you commentating with a huuuuge level of incomplete knowledge, as you don't know EITHER of our hands.
But yeah, fair play to Team Duffer today, losing 3 out of 3 is a bit gutting.
If you want to do a video on Heads Up sng play, be my guest, in fact, I think you should. I will happily be your opponent mate. I am pretty easy to read so you should look like a balla as well. ;)
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in that hand cunego made a flush on the river in the 1st match, he had 14 outs cos he had pair on the flop too so about 56% favourite, i like those odds to go along with fold equity, that was a good shove I'm a frog man :)
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plus i agree with connectorz lol I'm a frog man :)
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eddycadub wrote:in that hand cunego made a flush on the river in the 1st match, he had 14 outs cos he had pair on the flop too so about 56% favourite, i like those odds to go along with fold equity, that was a good shove amen
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And Bear shoving allin pre dont remove skill, its another type of skill.. Shoving 1 million bb preflop to win 1 bb is bad a bad play, same with with 20bb+.. 10-20 bb shoves are marginals but they can be suitabel in some situations and holdings.. 10- bb is what is close to always a shove, that aint reduction of skill, it is the best strategy!
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Cunego_D_NewAcc wrote:And Bear shoving allin pre dont remove skill, its another type of skill.. Shoving 1 million bb preflop to win 1 bb is bad a bad play, same with with 20bb+.. 10-20 bb shoves are marginals but they can be suitabel in some situations and holdings.. 10- bb is what is close to always a shove, that aint reduction of skill, it is the best strategy! amen
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@ Cunego - Indeed shuvn with X number of BB is standard but in quite of few of the senarios I commentated these people were shuvn with plenty of play on the table. Do u see that play in $300 an $400 HU SnG's ?? Errrm not when thr is plenty of play in the game. I know cos I have played in those games. Of course thr is a valid reason for the shuv and trust me Cunego its down to what the level the blinds are at and obviously how many BB u have left. But if we use your view that 10 BB is auto shuv well that means that when u get to 75/150 then when for example ArseAttack dropped to 1500 chips ur basically implying he shuvs every time ? I don't believe that has to be the case and to consistantly keep pushing play like this shows a lack of confidence in post flop play. It should be part of your HU strategy not 3/4's of it when the blinds get to 75/150 which was the case on several peoples play......
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@ Connectorz - Sorry you feel the way you do mate but your recent success has clouded your opinion of your own play. Here is the analysis of your game vs slevin and I genuinely think you do a diservice to him by typing 'I don't know what you mean' when I said he outplayed you..............
Slevin typed in the chat box when u tried to bluff on the river he 'sensed a steal', thought about it, and then called u off - he was 100% correct and it was a good call with an indifferent hand. That brought him back into it at 1861 vs ur 2064 with blinds at ths point 25/50. You then go on a little pre flop rise run and show one hand down of AT vs dross in slevins hand. You chip away at him and its clear he has nothing to fight back with. Slevin down to 1436 to your 2414. You have been in the lead for most of the game and apart from your bluff slevin hasn't had a chance to come back at you. The hands you have shown down have not been bad.
Blinds now go up to 50/100. Slevin now starts to up the aggression and u try to counter immediately to slap him down. However, slevin is no dumplin and he catched u out BIG STYLE when u over play from OOP with the flop 9 2 9(time in vid 13.40). You try to steal this off him by leading out and he flat calls you. He then types a fabulous psyci comment in the chat box to sucker you in and you leapt at it like a salmon and bet AGAIN on the river 50% pot and he instant shuvd you and snap folded.........hand in cookie jar big time. That was the 2nd time he had a proper chance to play you post flop and again he outplayed you and critically you spewed a wedge of chips at him on that hand and it turned the game. You didn't read the signs and your over aggression cost you. Chips all of a sudden are slevin 2319 vs Connectorzs 1531. Not been behind before and it pissed you of big time. So what happenes ahh yes you have 14 BB + and you go to shuv mode pre flop. It's thr in the video for all to see. Before you tried to take him on post flop now ur not interested its get it in time with 14BB +. Every time slevin tried to come back you just shuvd. I agree slevin made some mistakes at this point but its hard to play a 'maniac' shuvn his stack at you all the time. You then type in the chat box its a matter of who gets the luckiest ? Hmmm that don't sound like skillful HU play to me. Slevin now desperate as he has folded too much to you and now shuvs with 7T suited and he gets fortunate vs your K9 when you call off pre flop. Blinds are 75/150 and its just a shuv fest which Connectorz started. Connectorz's then shuvs with Q7 off and gets caught by A8 and looses..........
Sorry mate thats the summary of the HU play. When slevin got a proper chance post flop he did out play you. You then moved into suppa aggresive mode and just shuvd pre flop - I personally don't call pre flop shuvn with 14 + BB skillful HU play and based on what happened before you started doing this I believe overall slevin deserved his win......
P.S. eddycadub you need to get a room with connectorz mate - Lotta luvn going on between you two !!!! *grins*
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Can I say a BIG WELL done to 'DuFuses' team on their last round efforts................Great consistancy and it just shows what you can achieve when you overdose on Guiness!!!! Well done lads........... 
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dabeear wrote:@ Cunego - Indeed shuvn with X number of BB is standard but in quite of few of the senarios I commentated these people were shuvn with plenty of play on the table. Do u see that play in $300 an $400 HU SnG's ?? Errrm not when thr is plenty of play in the game. I know cos I have played in those games. Of course thr is a valid reason for the shuv and trust me Cunego its down to what the level the blinds are at and obviously how many BB u have left. But if we use your view that 10 BB is auto shuv well that means that when u get to 75/150 then when for example ArseAttack dropped to 1500 chips ur basically implying he shuvs every time ? I don't believe that has to be the case and to consistantly keep pushing play like this shows a lack of confidence in post flop play. It should be part of your HU strategy not 3/4's of it when the blinds get to 75/150 which was the case on several peoples play......
Why argument that you have played 300/400 dollar sngs? does that make you a better player then me and does it make you right on this topic? Please reread my post too, i say when you have less then 10bb you should shove CLOSE to evrything, not evrything.. And shoving, once more aint removing skill.. It is just simply the best tactic when stacks and blinds get at a certain level.. And bear, why do you always have to be so stubbern and always stand by your comment.. you never admit you might be wrong or had said something wrong.. You always try to save face with makeing you comments/opinions ritght.. humans make misstakes.. try to admit it for once.. its okey to admit or agree with us "lowstakers", we wont laugh at you.. Btw, i made a reply to your comment, please check it out, i want to see if you agree.. remember it is okey :) http://www.pokertube.com...and-replayer?hand=13315
Out of curiosity, how much have you made on poker in 2009/10? You dont need to answer but I would like to compear it with the 300/400 sngs you play..
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dabeear wrote:You then type in the chat box its a matter of who gets the luckiest ? Hmmm that don't sound like skillful HU play to me.
What he meens with this is that now the best strategy would be to shove most hands, and when you do that its most up to luck.. It wouldnt be so much up to luck if Slevin didnt shove alot 10bb or less, because that would be a poorer play, which would give connectorz more of an edge.. Think of what i just said.. I might be wrong but I strongly belives this is right..
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dabeear wrote:Can I say a BIG WELL done to 'DuFuses' team on their last round efforts................Great consistancy and it just shows what you can achieve when you overdose on Guiness!!!! Well done lads........... Good game, i was the only one under 8 points.. Hope to see some awsome bearskills next week!
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dabeear wrote:@ Cunego - Indeed shuvn with X number of BB is standard but in quite of few of the senarios I commentated these people were shuvn with plenty of play on the table. Do u see that play in $300 an $400 HU SnG's ?? Errrm not when thr is plenty of play in the game. I know cos I have played in those games. Of course thr is a valid reason for the shuv and trust me Cunego its down to what the level the blinds are at and obviously how many BB u have left. But if we use your view that 10 BB is auto shuv well that means that when u get to 75/150 then when for example ArseAttack dropped to 1500 chips ur basically implying he shuvs every time ? I don't believe that has to be the case and to consistantly keep pushing play like this shows a lack of confidence in post flop play. It should be part of your HU strategy not 3/4's of it when the blinds get to 75/150 which was the case on several peoples play......
Just want to say I can understand both points here. However, as the blinds move up every 5 minutes I believe and super quick, the extra 100 chips can make a big difference. I remember when I played TeddyKGB in the last match heads up, we were even for absolutely ages, before i finally grabbed a repopping hand to one of his raises. He lost 300 chips in that hand, down to 1700 and that was key. After that I managed to grind him down. Point being, everyone has different playing styles...and yes, at higher stakes you normally get more play and a higher flop %. But I just find sometimes it's beneficial to take the post flop play out of the equation completely. Anyway, looking forward to next week...our beloved captain is sitting out  . Let's pick up some strong points in his absence!
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dabeear wrote:Slevin typed in the chat box when u tried to bluff on the river he 'sensed a steal', thought about it, and then called u off - he was 100% correct and it was a good call with an indifferent hand. Yes. He gave a spiel in the chatbox. Should I do that when I make a decent call against someone? Will you prefer my play then. I called MadIrish with King High. Didn't say anything. I should have said 'My spidey sense is tingling' then called. Maybe then you rate me more as a player... dabeear wrote: You then go on a little pre flop rise run and show one hand down of AT vs dross in slevins hand. You chip away at him and its clear he has nothing to fight back with. Slevin down to 1436 to your 2414. You have been in the lead for most of the game and apart from your bluff slevin hasn't had a chance to come back at you. ...What? You seem to feel like I was catching cards and Slevin wasn't... No. Not the case. I was just more aggressive, not saying that I played better here, just that I was more aggressive, and in Turbo HU when the blinds rise fast, aggression will pay off in the long run. It should have, I chipped him down, got him in with 'dross' and he binked. dabeear wrote:He then types a fabulous psyci comment in the chat box to sucker you in and you leapt at it like a salmon ... Your honestly a little bit mental. dabeear wrote: Slevin now desperate as he has folded too much to you and now shuvs with 7T suited and he gets fortunate vs your K9 when you call off pre flop. Poor Slevin. He is 'desperate' because I had been reshoving on his sb raise which he kept doing, he had a habit of raise folding out of the small blind, I had my reshove ranges down, and I took advantage of that. It got me into a position where he was 'desperate' enough to shove T7 and I called him with K9 and couldn't hold. But you don't value that as good play. You thought I just 'wanted to get it all in to eliminate skill'. Bear. How much postflop play do you think 14bb will give you? Gonna get 3 streets of value? Gonna be able to 3bet someone post flop? Gonna be able to bluff effectively? No. Not really. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am fairly confident in my HU game deepstacked in a tournament/sng setting. But you have no room to 'play' with 14bb. You think you can outplay someone postflop with 14bb, then you either are amazing, or incorrect. For the record. You have explained what happened in the match, you have not really critically analysed it. You don't know what we were holding a lot of the time, you don't know what was getting shoved, and what was getting folded. All you have done here is tell the story of the match in way which has tried to show Slevin as the brave card-dead hero, and me as the Donk who just wanted to gamble. Cool. Story. Brah. Oh, and god. Stop prattling on about these $300 sngs you played against Ivey and Brunson. There is no evidence they existed. They definitely no longer take place. And they do not give you an expert opinion on the matter. I am happy to discuss hands and situations with you, but you saying you played these sngs does not add your opinion one ounce of weight.
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How much postflop play is it when you have less then 10 bb preflop? Its bacically fold or all in on the flop, isnt it? Awesome video!
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lepparaise wrote:How much postflop play is it when you have less then 10 bb preflop? Its bacically fold or all in on the flop, isnt it? I want bear to do a video on the subtleties of postflop play with 14bb.
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I thought it was pretty common knowledge that HU poker with 10BB was effectively a solved game? I think bear has missed a key point. To him, he sees a shove and makes a comment such as "they are taking the skill out of the game".
The correct play when at 10BB or less (which is a term rarely used in poker, but in this case GAME THEORY alone dictates correct and incorrect plays) is to shove the optimum hands to counter your opponents call/folding ranges, and call all-ins with optimum hands to counter your opponents shoving ranges. It is NOT shoving every hand, it is NOT bingo, it is NOT pure luck, no skill etc. etc. etc. its correct strategy based on ICM which you must adapt to your specific opponents tendancies.
For example, shoving 84suited is the correct play on the button with 10BB. The beautiful thing is, this shove is completely +EV and unexploitable. Thats the magic of game theory. Here's why:
Against the perfect opponent (as dictated by ICM), he will be calling with the optimum range (22,A2,K5,K2s,Q9,Q7s,JT,J8s,T9s), which he will have just rarely enough to make this shove profitable. +EV
Against a very loose opponent, his calling range will be much wider, and hence he will call you way too light, which will be -EV for him against your perfect shoving range (hence +EV for you)
Against a very tight opponent, his calling range will be much narrower, and hence he will hardly ever call you, which will be -EV for him against your perfect shoving range (hence +EV for you),
See - unexploitable - no ifs, ands or buts!
I guess this is all only valid if your opponent is also playing shove - fold poker, but chances are if they aren't, they are spewing chips by raise-folding a lot to your optimum shoves!
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