Poker Forum

I posted this hand on my facebook a few days ago and got a ton of people disagreeing with one another but thought it a pretty interesting and tricky spot

LOL, hey Chilly you ought to OPR the person you are offering advice to.

This is really an interesting hand. I understand the flat pre. Did you want to check-raise the flop?
I think his range here is pretty wide. I think he might have 67s or a hand similar to yours. Also a lot of Broadway cards which result in a top pair good kicker on the river. With the latter I think he has to check the river behind most of the time. If he had the small straight and backed into backdoor flush, he got lucky and may take these line. With the small straight without hearts he might as well just check.
With no read on the player I think it's a pretty tough call. Personally I think you could fold and wait for a better spot, but I'm a tiny balled nit :D

just call turn and b/f river imo.

I don't think your call preflop was particularly weak. You get good pot odds, and you have a hand that flops well.

Personally I would probably have lead out on this flop myself, rather than checking. This flop hits a caller's range really hard, so if I had a pair or better, I would be concerned about giving a free card away because the guy on the button may see this as a bad flop to c-bet into two guys on. Therefore I'll bet pretty much any hand I want to continue with. Also given your relative position and the texture of the board you are likely to get a lot of credit for having hit something, so a semi-bluff here should have a fairly high success rate. Further more in order to leverage your preflop odds, you should look to make these semi-bluffs a lot, even with worse draws than this.

As played I think you made the right fold on the river. Villain simply can't float the turn with air, unless he's on a serious leveling trip, and the only type of "not air" hands that he is not c-betting the flop with is a really strong draw that he has picked up on the turn, like Ah8h, and when he then bombs the river like that I think you have a relatively easy fold.

i think you guys all read it very similarly to me. Very nice analysis there bilxax I think. calling turn is ok but I think raising has some merit too, vilain had almost no bluffs in his range on river except if hes bad and has a7 or something so I agree river is a pretty easy fold when he bets pot, I doubt were ever going to be good enough of the time for us to justify a call. Bet fold is interesting but I think given flop and turn action villain is heavily wieghted towards having a flush draw and doubt many hands will just call a river bet in his range so my plan was pretty much jam any none heart river and check fold all heart rivers. I guess bet fold river or check fold are our best plays, still unsure which is better. with these stacks its gotta be checkfold but if we were deeper definately bet fold I guess

Good question. As usual it's a matter of hand ranges and pot odds. If we think he's going to check anything but a flush behind, then the bet sizing doesn't matter. If we think he might value bet a worse straight or two pairs, then we need to pull out our hand combination counting tool and see if there are enough worse hands in his range to warrant a call, given the pot odds we get.

Of course the tricky bit is to figure out if he is able to balance his range so that he is GTO, regardless of his bet sizing, or if we can somehow find an exploit in his range. All in all I think that no matter what he holds he would be better off making a smaller bet, because it gives us a more difficult math problem, and because it's a tournament and he should value getting a more sure call slightly higher than maximizing chip EV.

i guess i call to a half pot bet but I think pot size bet is pretty polarising to having a flush since there are almost no bluffs in his range. I think he can have a flush here and not much else really but maybe im a nit loool

Well you have the Th and the Qh came on the river so that takes a lot of the combo draws that he would stay in the hand for out. The only reason a player would call the turn bet with a naked flush draw is if they think they will get paid off 100% of the time if it comes.

Once you check the river, with your pretty much inviting him to bet his whole range against you because you just told him you don't have a flush. Either your going to call and try to catch a bluff or fold. I think he has no choice but to bet here to win the hand. And his bet size makes it harder for you to call, also why I think he isn't trying to get value.

I think the best way to get yourself out of this type of situation is to bet the river. You don't have to go big but if he has a flush he will go over top and now you're the one with the polarized range and still have the potential to get call by a lot worse.

I really do think you were good in that hand. :( sorry.

Assuming that Villain can have a lot of flush draws is assuming that he is a complete drooler, but since I love a good argument I will play along. Let say he has every reasonable flush draw in his range. I would say that's overly conservative IMO but here it goes. Since our opponent is a drooler lets say that he also bets all sets here. So he has no air and all value.

FLUSH HANDS

A-2,3,5,7,8,9,J,K (8)
K-2,3,5,7,8,9,J (7)
J9, J8, J7 (3)
98, 97 (2)
87 (1)
======
21

SETS

44 (3)
66 (3)
88 (3)
99 (3)
QQ (3)
======
15

31 hands and we beat 15 so we win at show down 15/36 or near 41%. Since it's a pot size bet we only need to be good about 33% of the time. I also included all Kx and Ax hands. When our opponent check backs the flop I think we can start to take out a lot of these weaker hands because most players would be more willing to bet/fold with a hand that has little showdown value.

Last our hand is really under represented, how often are you checking the made flush on the river here? You are polarized to a ton of non nut hands, yet you have the absolute top of your range. Like I said with the Th in my hand and the Qh on the board snap calling a PSB.